General Theories

Kevin Harrison writes:

Okay, after spending four hours going through various parts of the Marathon's Story website (Blam!, Cortana, and the story itself), I've come up with a few possible ways to tie Myth and Marathon together.

First off, many people are wondering why there should even *be* a connection. I wouldn't wonder myself, if it weren't for a comment by Matt Soell of Bungie:

Matt also had this to say about plot connections in Bungie's games:

...things are often more related than they may first appear. For example, there's no obvious similarity or connection between the Marathon world and the Myth one....

...but then there's the Great Devoid.

The Great Devoid was the big hole in the ground at the end of Myth:TFL.

How did it get there?

That sparked my imagination. Just where was he going with that? A further point was brought up by another reader to the MS site:

Omer points out that the origin of the Great Devoid is given in Myth. Omer writes:

MTFL manual p. 46:

Great Devoid: A bottomless chasm near Myrgard, created by the Callieach during their final days. Rather than be hunted to extinction by the Trow, the Callieach destroyed themselves and many Trow, leaving behind only the Devoid.

This is the only mention of the Callieach ever made.

{snipped}

Hmm. At this point, the question should be, 'What were the Callieach?'. They're never mentioned anywhere else, so we're left to speculate. Apparently they did not get along with the Trow, and were unable to survive in a war against them. However, they *did* have the firepower to put a huge, gaping chasm in the planet. So how is it they could be so easily dispatched when they had such technology/magic? Did they simply not know how to control it?

Another angle is that this creation story is in error, and something *else* caused the creation of the Great Devoid. That's when something I was reading from the story in Marathon 2: Durandal caught my eye:

Tycho's ship has been destroyed. The crater where it annihilated itself on Lh'owon's inner moon is still glowing. There were no survivors. With a focused message laser I burned his epitaph into the surface near the crash site, in letters three hundred meters high: "Fatum Iustum Stultorum".

Somehow I get the feeling a large starship dropping onto a moon would leave a *very* deep hole... as another point for this, isn't the Great Devoid rather near the Cloudspine, the largest mountain chain on the planet of Myth? I wonder what the peaks looked like from above thousands of years before the Myth story... ;) Although I'm wondering how a laser can burn a message 'three hundred meters high'. Shouldn't burning lasers cut into the ground, not raise it? Unless there was some sort of lava backflow, I don't see how this works out.

Admittedly, this is quite a stretch. Especially since the Lh'owon star was supposedly set nova by the Pfhor, and subsequently contained by the Jjaro space station in the system (Marathon Infinity).

Another possibility has been brought up before, with the Trow actually being descendants of the Behemoths enslaved by the Pfhor. In this case, I would guess that the Callieach were actually the few S'pht trapped on the moon after the battle. I doubt they could effectively fight Trow/Behemoths, so at the last they self destructed all their leftover technology in unison, creating the Great Devoid. This would also mean that the Myth world is Lh'owon itself, and not the moon.

Which brings us to the next item:

I ordered the deployment of the "trih xeem."

Almost immediately, our enemy then began transmitting ridiculous warnings concerning some sort of ancient chaotic being trapped deep in the Lh'owon sun. Of course, at this point mercy was unacceptable. The time to end the collective dream of the S'pht had come.

Durandal had discovered an ancient being trapped in the star, a W'rkncacnter:

According to the legends of a thousand worlds only a few of which are still habitable, the W'rkncacnter are those things that live in chaos, creating it around them. At the beginning of the universe, they were unmistakable in their entities, but as time has gone by, their existence has become difficult to detect among the chaotic elements of the universe, hidden in stars, trapped in storms, forever looking along the event horizons of black holes. Setting one free in ordered space is difficult and insane.

Of course, it's not entirely clear that the thing was contained at the end of the game. Honestly, I had trouble following the events as they're relayed on the MS site. I'll try the game, now that I've got a fast enough Mac to handle it. :)

Back to the story... the W'rkncacnter are apparently creatures of chaos, seeking destruction wherever they go. Isn't that what the Leveller wants? (Albeit on a smaller scale...the planet, not the universe). Perhaps some aspect of the W'rkncacnter is trapped in the 'comet' which appears every thousand years around the Myth homeworld? This allows it to resurrect the great hero of old, and turn them into the physical incarnation of the Leveller, controlling the forces of the Dark and leading them in the destruction of the world.

It also helps explain how magic works on this world, when it's completely against the Marathon paradigm. The other explanation is that the 'magic' is just leftover Jjaro tech that some of the beings surviving on the Myth world learned how to use.

Which brings us to another point...if this *is* Marathon related, how did the humans/humanoids get there? I'd guess they're descendants of the leftover colonists which Durandal kept on the Boomer, and released on Lh'owon and it's moon while trying to stop the Pfhor and find the S'pht'Kr.

Here's the kicker...perhaps the Leveller *is* the same person every thousand years? Might sound odd at first, but here's something else I found on MS:

Alex Samaras also writes:

The final screen says: "You were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won."

{snipped}

Another possibility is that this is referring to something much more immense. The Jjaro were obviously powerful beings. Their power was probably only limited by the closure of the universe. If so, then they may have created the player (us). The phrases " Yours to manipulate, destroy and rebuild" and " You are destiny" would take on a greater meaning. Perhaps we are another type of chaotic being, created long ago. We seem to have knack for upsetting the balance of power, cause a little chaos, and create order out of that chaos(e.g. Crush the mighty Pfhor, cause chaos throughout their ranks, and free the S'pht once and for all). There is some (possibly circumstantial) evidence supporting this.

1. The Jjaro were incredibly good at creating cybernetic organisms. The S'pht are obviously the prime example... powerful, intelligent... If they created the player, then they could have given him as much power as they wanted. Even the ability to be "dead a thousand times.".

2. We are not really recognized as human by anyone (except the confused message from Tycho in Marathon). Even if we were a battleroid created from a dead human, we could still be recognized as human. People w/ heart implants could be considered cyborgs, and they are recognized as and considered to be human.

If we "are destiny" then perhaps our niche in the universe is to keep any one intelligence (except the Jjaro who disappeared) from becoming too powerful. We do this by being at the right place and the right time to upset the balance of power.

The Leveller comes back every thousand years to upset the balance between Light and Dark, each milennia giving way to one or the other successively. Sounds similar, right?

So, if 'you' are the Leveller (who isn't *actually* the hero of the previous milennia, simply a simulacra, as you can't be fighting yourself very well...), then for some reason you were left behind with the other human colonists on this moon after the Pfhor/S'pht war. The W'rkncacnter somehow tainted you, and now you are doomed to forever continually fight as the hero and the villain alternately.

Another idea is that Durandal/Cortana now inhabits something else (the Jjaro station?), which orbits this star every 1000 years, and for fun he uses you as the Jjaro intended: to stir up chaos and fighting on the remnants of this world.

The one problem I have with this is that even a cyborg wouldn't survive the way the Leveller was killed each millenia. That would imply that perhaps you had been 'copied' into a database, and reconstructed every thousand years for your new role, making you a true simulacra each time, built in the image of the last hero.

Another problem is the destruction of the Lh'owon sun. Perhaps the containment of the nova caused it to collapse into another stable star? If not, then this whole theory goes out the window. :) Anyway, that's all I can remember of my theories for now. They're rather sketchy, and one helluva stretch, but it's fun to speculate sometimes. Any, all, or none of this may be true.

I'm definitely looking forward to Blam!. :)

Mark Levin writes:

Hmm... If you read dangerously far into it, the game could be a heavily mysticized version of real-world events in the Marathon universe. Perhaps this is a normal war retold over tribal generations, slowly losing accuracy to excitement. The Light units could be a medium-tech race, which would explain why nearly all the light units are armed with swords, bows, and other low-tech weapons while still being able to cause mass destruction with artifacts (advanced explosive or energy weapons) like the Bow of Furious Incandescence or extremely powerful units (the tank-like Forest Giants). They were attacked by a high-tech race with robotic armies (Thrall) and bio/chem weapons (Shades).

Or, you could go the cheap way and say it was all caused by another crashed W'rkncacnter in the Great Devoid. ;)

Character Crossovers

SD writes:

Greetings, this is the thinking I've been doing about Marathon and Myth, yes this is a crackpot theory. Yes, thats the point of it. Now then, rather than sort through terminal texts and such, I thought I'd go on what I could grab from my head, and let you folks connect any details or point out any factual errors I might have.

Setting: Some time after The Marathon Incident, on an unidentified planet.

Myth Units: The real explanation:

Berserks, Warriors, Journeymen- Humans of some kind. Most likely descendants of either settlers or a crashed Human spacecraft.

fir'Bolg: Possibly S'pht. Take into account, their previous hostility towards the Humans (The S'pht were forced to of course). Its a bit of a stretch, but an aura of mystery and seclusion surrounds both races...

Dwarves: I believe the that there were no actual dwarves, though an eastern Human settlement at one time was able to acquire technology greater than the other Humans of the Myth world. Perhaps they happened upon a trove of hence forgotten UESC weapons, or a Jjaro cupboard. Who knows? Maybe their leader was really short, and created a stereotype for the rest of them.

bre'Unor: Separatist Humans, who somehow managed to remove themselves from the other populations, probably stemmed from a conflict that arose soon after Humans first came to the planet.

Brigands: Simulacra. Obviously, time has twisted their place and behavior around a good deal.

Fetch: This is a confusing prospect. Though the slim stature and lethal nature of the fetch would suggest Pfhor, enforcer, there are other things at play. For example, where did the idea of wearing skin and rocketing into space come from? The latter mentioned is S'pht like (The S'pht would dematerialize upon destruction.)

Ghasts: Again, Simulacra.

Ghols and Muals: These must have been Pfhor client races, though neither of them correspond terribly clearly to records kept on the subject. However, both Ghols and Muals suggest the primitive and brutal society of the F'lickta. Though the lumbering mannerisms of the Mauls are reminiscent of the Pfhor Cyborgs or even Hulks.

Soulless: The unliving cold maintenance drones of the Pfhor bases could have been transformed by Myth into Soulless, though the wasp like creatures reported on the marathon are another possibility.

Thrall: Pfhor. Fighters most likely. The image of a semi nude figure with shoulder armor on is common to the Thrall and Pfhor. Both seem to be mostly devoid of any personal drives or wills.

Stygian Knights: Pfhor Hunters. They look similar, both are imposing armored figures, and both share an inconvenient immunity to certain weapon.

Myrmidons: Probably Pfhor troopers. Merely quicker deadlier versions of Thrall. The relationship (in terms of combat ability) between the Fighter and The Trooper is similar to the relationship between the Thrall and the Myrmidon.

Warlocks: S'pht, or possibly S'pht Kr. The S'pht's' alliance could be shifted easily enough (See "Welcome to The Revolution" and Durandal's deeds on the Marathon) They both open their robes to project energy of some kind. This sight was probably rather traumatic for anyone who saw it, so the image stuck, even if a few details changed.

Wights: Simulacra. There's no mistaking something that explodes itself.

Spiders: No doubt native pests, local to that planet. This could mean F'lickta. If it were Tau Ceti, they could be Chockisens, but the habitable areas of the Tau Ceti system were nuked down to Bedrock following the Marathon Incident.

Trow: I'd have to say Pfhor Armored Units, Juggernauts. Now, some historians have suggested hulks, but the rapid destruction of the Trow is too different from the slow ponderous nature of the hulks. Now, something like the Juggernaut, that comes in by surprise, fires a few Missiles and bullets, leaving splatter in its wake is reminiscent of the hulk.

Myrkidia: Not covered in depth, something tricker. Possibly Jjaro or Nar influenced.

Forest Giants: This I don't know about. Perhaps a native species? Converted Juggernauts?

The Nine: 9? Hmm. 10 Cyborgs lacking their tenth member. 9 competent combatants, capable of astounding feats in battle.

Alric: I'd have to say an AI. The most likely one of those we know would be Leela.

The Tain: Perhaps the moon (K'lia?) that the S'pht took with them when they left Lh'Owon. Perhaps a Sol Orbiter converted into a Colony ship. Hard to say. If it were Lh'Owon's moon, it would pretty much cement the spiders as F'lickta.

The Total Codex: This may be more of an ideal. Omniscience. Escape will make us God. (See: Escaping the collapse of the universe)

World Knots: The occasional instance of the still functional deportation technology frequently encountered in UEG and Pfhor Space.

The Fallen Lords: The infighting and such reeks of Artificial Intelligence. These are some important ones we know of Traxus IV, Durandal, Leela, Tycho, Thoth. There where rumors of some subsidiary AIs under Traxus IV that went rampant, but these remain clouded in mystery. I'm rather wary of trying to decide which AI is which lord, but just judging from the names alone, Tycho(perhaps Durandal even) would be the Deciever, and Thoth would be the Watcher.

The Leveller: The mysterious protaganist of Marathon. One who works for both sides? (Levels things out)

Forrest writes:

Setting: Some time after The Marathon Incident, on an unidentified planet.

I think that, if Myth and Marathon are indeed in the same universe, then it is on some world, doesn't matter (could even be Earth; see my Myth/France comparison in BunCon2), and in the very far future. Quite a while after the war with the Pfhor. The Pfhor don't even seem to be involved here in Myth. But Humans definitely are, as may be the Jjaro and W'rkncacnter. Anyway, it seems that technology has been set back drastically on this world, probably due to some unknown cataclysm six thousand sixty years ago (from a MythII-time "present"), when the cycles began. (Yes, both Myths, TFL and Soulblighter, take place in the Seventh Era. We know of four unnamed Leveller incarnations, plus Tireces/Moagim, Connacht/Balor, and now Alric has begun the 7th Era).

Myth Units: The real explanation:

Berserks, Warriors, Journeymen- Humans of some kind. Most likely descendants of either settlers or a crashed Human spacecraft.

Agreed.

fir'Bolg: Possibly S'pht. Take into account, their previous hostility towards the Humans (The S'pht were forced to of course). Its a bit of a stretch, but an aura of mystery and seclusion surrounds both races...

Another race of humans. Remember, Europeans discounted Africans as Human in the olden days. Besides, there's been over six thousand years of separation to differentiate the two races (Human and fir'Bolg), so they could have some significant differences. Or, perhaps, they are a native humanoid race, or an alien race stranded there with the humans. Or a genetically altered race of humans. Anyway, they certainly aren't S'pht.

Dwarves: I believe the that there were no actual dwarves, though an eastern Human settlement at one time was able to acquire technology greater than the other Humans of the Myth world. Perhaps they happened upon a trove of hence forgotten UESC weapons, or a Jjaro cupboard. Who knows? Maybe their leader was really short, and created a stereotype for the rest of them.

Agreed that they are Humans (or an offshoot thereof, see fir'Bolg), but I do think that they were *all* short. And I also think that they developed explosives on their own, as said in Myth, because the rest of humanity was set back far enough.

Bre'unor: Separatist Humans, who somehow managed to remove themselves from the other populations, probably stemmed from a conflict that arose soon after Humans first came to the planet.

See fir'Bolg and Dwarves. Humanoid aliens (though three humanoid races on one planet is a bit of a stretch), or a Human or Human-derived race.

Brigands: Simulacra. Obviously, time has twisted their place and behavior around a good deal.

I think Brigands are exactly as they are portrayed in Myth: Humans, working for evil forces.

Fetch: This is a confusing prospect. Though the slim stature and lethal nature of the fetch would suggest Pfhor, enforcer, there are other things at play. For example, where did the idea of wearing skin and rocketing into space come from? The latter mentioned is S'pht like (The S'pht would dematerialize upon destruction.)

Aliens (probably not Pfhor), summoned from another world by Balor, just like said in Myth. It actually says they are being summoned from another world in the flavor text, so this does lend credence to any Myth-Marathon theories. They are noncorporeal as well, energy beings, who must inhabit human flesh (or another kind of flesh, or something) to survive on our world.

Ghasts: Again, Simulacra.

Undead humans, bred to have parylizing diseases fester within them. The player in Marathon is one of ten Mjolnir cyborgs who were all once dead. And the player doesn't seem to have much mind of his own, just doing whatever he is told by whoever, exactly like Thrall. This is just the beginning of my magic-tech connection.

Ghols and Muals: These must have been Pfhor client races, though neither of them correspond terribly clearly to records kept on the subject. However, both Ghols and Muals suggest the primitive and brutal society of the F'lickta. Though the lumbering mannerisms of the Mauls are reminiscent of the Pfhor Cyborgs or even Hulks.

Native life to the Myth world, or aliens stranded there along with the humans. The Fetch are now stranded on the Myth world since Balor was killed before he could send them home; previous Levellers could have done this as well.

Soulless: The unliving cold maintenance drones of the Pfhor bases could have been transformed by Myth into Soulless, though the wasp like creatures reported on the marathon are another possibility.

Souls (electromagnetic patterns), stolen by sorcery (super-advanced technology, some of which may be embedded in the humans of the Myth world, like nanotech). Exactly as said in Myth... sorta :-)

Thrall: Pfhor. Fighters most likely. The image of a semi nude figure with shoulder armor on is common to the Thrall and Pfhor. Both seem to be mostly devoid of any personal drives or wills.

Undead humans; really low quality battleroids, basically.

Stygian Knights: Pfhor Hunters. They look similar, both are imposing armored figures, and both share an inconvenient immunity to certain weapon.

Suits of armor, animated by magic-tech, and controlled by a piece of their creator's soul (electromagnetic pattern).

Myrmidons: Probably Pfhor troopers. Merely quicker deadlier versions of Thrall. The relationship (in terms of combat ability) between the Fighter and The Trooper is similar to the relationship between the Thrall and the Myrmidon.

Kin of the Berserks, suborned to the dark by Balor, and given eternal life but not eternal youth by his "magic".

Warlocks: S'pht, or possibly S'pht Kr. The S'pht's' alliance could be shifted easily enough (See "Welcome to The Revolution" and Durandal's deeds on the Marathon) They both open their robes to project energy of some kind. This sight was probably rather traumatic for anyone who saw it, so the image stuck, even if a few details changed.

Humans who learned to use magic-tech.

Wights: Simulacra. There's no mistaking something that explodes itself.

Ghasts, so full of pus and gas that they are explosive.

Spiders: No doubt native pests, local to that planet. This could mean F'lickta. If it were Tau Ceti, they could be Chockisens, but the habitable areas of the Tau Ceti system were nuked down to Bedrock following the Marathon Incident.

Native pests, or perhaps derived from terran spiders, a genetic experiment gone awry. (What's a Chockisen look like, anyway?)

Trow: I'd have to say Pfhor Armored Units, Juggernauts. Now, some historians have suggested hulks, but the rapid destruction of the Trow is too different from the slow ponderous nature of the hulks. Now, something like the Juggernaut, that comes in by surprise, fires a few Missiles and bullets, leaving splatter in its wake is reminiscent of the hulk.

Altered humans, or a humanoid alien race stranded on the Myth world.

Myrkidia: Not covered in depth, something tricker. Possibly Jjaro or Nar influenced.

W'rkncacnter dreams, focused into reality by Moagim.

Forest Giants: This I don't know about. Perhaps a native species? Converted Juggernauts?

Related to the Trow, no doubt, though their chimeric nature (plant or animal?) is rather odd.

The Nine: 9? Hmm. 10 Cyborgs lacking their tenth member. 9 competent combatants, capable of astounding feats in battle.

Nine humans trained in the use of magic-tech.

Alric: I'd have to say an AI. The most likely one of those we know would be Leela.

The most competent member of the Nine, no doubt.

The Tain: Perhaps the moon (K'lia?) that the S'pht took with them when they left Lh'Owon. Perhaps a Sol Orbiter converted into a Colony ship. Hard to say. If it were Lh'Owon's moon, it would pretty much cement the spiders as F'lickta.

Jjaro technology. The Tain is a completely portable pocket universe, a big hunk of space-time compressed to the size of a tiny box, and linked to our "normal" universe world through a wormhole.

The Total Codex: This may be more of an ideal. Omniscience. Escape will make us God. (See: Escaping the collapse of the universe)

Jjaro, definitely. A book about the future, written in the past. The Jjaro could definitely do that.

World Knots: The occasional instance of the still functional deportation technology frequently encountered in UEG and Pfhor Space.

The name gives this one away. They're wormholes, knots in space-time, connecting two points together. (Though the wormhole itself is likely tiny, and the four pylons are teleporters, which scan and dematerialize the things in the circle of the knot, send the particles and the data to rematerialize them through the wormhole, where they are reassembled at the other end. Most likely Jjaro-built).

The Fallen Lords: The infighting and such reeks of Artificial Intelligence. These are some important ones we know of Traxus IV, Durandal, Leela, Tycho, Thoth. There where rumors of some subsidiary AIs under Traxus IV that went rampant, but these remain clouded in mystery. I'm rather wary of trying to decide which AI is which lord, but just judging from the names alone, Tycho(perhaps Durandal even) would be the Deciever, and Thoth would be the Watcher.

Humans who have mastered magic-tech, and been suborned to the dark by Balor (or another Leveller incarnation, but these six were suborned by Balor).

The Leveller: The mysterious protaganist of Marathon. One who works for both sides? (Levels things out)

The Leveller, contrary to the theory of mine you're thinking of where he levels the playing field, is a being of . . . PURE EVIL! [insert maniacal laughter]. But seriously, it's a transient divinity who inhabits powerfull people every thousand years, until they're killed by a great hero, who usually ends up as the next body of the Leveller.

But now, who is this Leveller, and what's with the cycles in the first place? I think there's a W'rkncacnter at the bottom of the Great Devoid, which is what makes it a bottomless pit instead of just a big hole in the ground. Before that, the W'rkncacnter was just down there. Both the Leveller and the W'rkncacnter seek nothing but chaos and destruction, which makes them perfect. This W'rkncacnter is awake and dreaming, and every thousand years it manages to take control of a particularly powerfull person on the surface and wreak havoc all over the place.